Curse

jibikao · Dec 07, 2005, 07:19 PM // 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al the Dead

of course i don't PvP much i don't even have the game

lol
a little step aside from flaming is there any way of dealing with energy draining skills with that build. Not that it kills you but it hurts.

2 manfred I said that dirt hurts thx for confirming that. Diversion usually go unnoticed, why - i don't know. When they do notice it i'm trashed. And i didn't say anything about traps.

BTW any more builds? So far Vexed build seemed most effective even without monk support.

You don't even have the game and you enjoy reading all these builds? lol Are you planning to get it on Christmas?

Touchy build is pretty good because most people don't bring counters for it. It's more of a suprising build. People would blind you but blind has no effect on touch skills.

jibikao · Dec 07, 2005, 07:23 PM // 19:23

Energy denial shuts down ALL builds except warrior adrenline builds. I don't consider that a huge downfall of being a ranger because most mesmers don't deny ranger's energy.

Energy denial is not a big problem for me because I use ferocious strike. Wither/Malasis is more of a problem IMO. Not a huge one but a problem.

Cripple from traps and hex can be really annoying. That's why I want to use my pet to leech energy for me so that when I get crippled, I have at least my pet to do some damage.

Blackout is annoying, obviously.

Diversion is annoying too but Diversion has long casting time and my pet can usually interrupt it I know where it's coming from.

Distracting, Savage, Punishing bow Ranger can be really annoying if I don't have whirling defense on.

The Bumbling Shogun · Dec 08, 2005, 11:33 AM // 11:33

Anyone want to post what kind of weapon this build uses? =P

Vexed Arcanist · Dec 08, 2005, 05:53 PM // 17:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Bumbling Shogun

Anyone want to post what kind of weapon this build uses? =P

Blood weapon (wand) with 20% faster recharge and Blood Focus with +1 Blood/+30 Health/+12 energy (PvP generated). If your build version uses Awaken the Blood then you might want a Blood Staff with 20/20 +5 Energy/+20% enchanting. IMO Awaken the Blood is just a waste of time and energy.

If you use a PvE character then you might want to check out the +5 energy wand from the collector outside of Nolani.

Akathrielah · Dec 08, 2005, 06:41 PM // 18:41

Touch ranger is a decent build for Random Arenas, although I really wouldn't suggest it for anything else (even in TA, since any organized team there will stomp on this build).

The greatest strength of this build is the lack of organization that random arena teams have.

This build is notoriously hard to shut down/kill for most other builds ALONE.
But is really easy to destroy(much more than other builds) if your team can work together.

Why?

All skills require energy (granted w/expertise), all skills require touch range, skills need to be spammed in order to achieve high dps.

What does this mean?

-E-Denial is particularly vicious on rangers b/c of their lower energy regeneration, even with high expertise, they are in trouble if an e-denial mesmer drops you to zero energy. (And if you aren't using a blood staff with this build, I have nothing to really to say to you, other than include it next time, as you have no reason to use a bow(or any other weapon for that matter)).

-Snares dominate this build, one of the few builds that can work havoc on this build is a water elementalist or illusion mesmer. Traps, pindown, and other snares at range, also cause plenty of problems, since you need to be in touch range to transfer your conditions.

-Diversion kills this build, as do good interrupt rangers.

-Spiteful is a bane not so much to the touch ranger, but his teammates. (Cast spiteful and plant yourself next to the touch ranger's teamates).

-Damage output for this build is decent, but it cannot spike AT ALL. This means any team with a decent healer will have no trouble with this build at all. This is a pressure build(and not a very good one, relative to other pressure builds) through and through.

What does this all mean?

Well if you are by yourself, not much. If you throw a diversion on the touch ranger as a mesmer, he will just wait it out, or try and use his pet to interrupt you (which you can laugh off if you brought mantra of resolve). If you are an attacking class (bow ranger, warrior), the touch ranger will blind you. If you are an elementalist the ranger has superior armor, although water elementalists, elementalist with WaF, and other snares will happily dance around this build. Necromancers with the right build, can simply attempt to outdo the touch ranger, providing that the touch ranger isn't feeding off another target. Boon prot simply out heal this builds damage, no two ways about it. A good healing build, much the same. Prot monks can't do much however, since all of the touch skills go through the protection enchantments.

What does this mean as a team?

- In terms of dps, this build pales in comparison to a good axe or hammer warrior (and it lacks the ability of hammer warriors to shut down a target as well). Which means your monk(s) will have a lighter healing load. This build as I stated before, cannot spike at all.

-Although it is immune to traditional methods of shutting down attack classes, snares do their job just the same.

- Its attacks are spammed and require melee range meaning that spiteful can ruin the opposing team (although not so much the touch ranger).

So why does this make it easier to shut down than other builds?

Because you are combining aspects of a caster (spells), with aspects of a melee attack class (rapid attacks, touch range). Meaning that any hard counter to spells will give you a hard time, as well as any hard counters to melee.

All in all, what this build is, is a warrior that can't spike, isn't as proficient in terms of pressure, is better at keeping itself alive, and is (slightly) harder to shutdown.

You guys more or less made yourselves a tank =p.

Former Ruling · Dec 09, 2005, 01:03 AM // 01:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akathrielah

Touch ranger is a decent build for Random Arenas, although I really wouldn't suggest it for anything else (even in TA, since any organized team there will stomp on this build).

The greatest strength of this build is the lack of organization that random arena teams have.

This build is notoriously hard to shut down/kill for most other builds ALONE.
But is really easy to destroy(much more than other builds) if your team can work together.

Why?

All skills require energy (granted w/expertise), all skills require touch range, skills need to be spammed in order to achieve high dps.

What does this mean?

-E-Denial is particularly vicious on rangers b/c of their lower energy regeneration, even with high expertise, they are in trouble if an e-denial mesmer drops you to zero energy. (And if you aren't using a blood staff with this build, I have nothing to really to say to you, other than include it next time, as you have no reason to use a bow(or any other weapon for that matter)).

-Snares dominate this build, one of the few builds that can work havoc on this build is a water elementalist or illusion mesmer. Traps, pindown, and other snares at range, also cause plenty of problems, since you need to be in touch range to transfer your conditions.

-Diversion kills this build, as do good interrupt rangers.

-Spiteful is a bane not so much to the touch ranger, but his teammates. (Cast spiteful and plant yourself next to the touch ranger's teamates).

-Damage output for this build is decent, but it cannot spike AT ALL. This means any team with a decent healer will have no trouble with this build at all. This is a pressure build(and not a very good one, relative to other pressure builds) through and through.

What does this all mean?

Well if you are by yourself, not much. If you throw a diversion on the touch ranger as a mesmer, he will just wait it out, or try and use his pet to interrupt you (which you can laugh off if you brought mantra of resolve). If you are an attacking class (bow ranger, warrior), the touch ranger will blind you. If you are an elementalist the ranger has superior armor, although water elementalists, elementalist with WaF, and other snares will happily dance around this build. Necromancers with the right build, can simply attempt to outdo the touch ranger, providing that the touch ranger isn't feeding off another target. Boon prot simply out heal this builds damage, no two ways about it. A good healing build, much the same. Prot monks can't do much however, since all of the touch skills go through the protection enchantments.

What does this mean as a team?

- In terms of dps, this build pales in comparison to a good axe or hammer warrior (and it lacks the ability of hammer warriors to shut down a target as well). Which means your monk(s) will have a lighter healing load. This build as I stated before, cannot spike at all.

-Although it is immune to traditional methods of shutting down attack classes, snares do their job just the same.

- Its attacks are spammed and require melee range meaning that spiteful can ruin the opposing team (although not so much the touch ranger).

So why does this make it easier to shut down than other builds?

Because you are combining aspects of a caster (spells), with aspects of a melee attack class (rapid attacks, touch range). Meaning that any hard counter to spells will give you a hard time, as well as any hard counters to melee.

All in all, what this build is, is a warrior that can't spike, isn't as proficient in terms of pressure, is better at keeping itself alive, and is (slightly) harder to shutdown.

You guys more or less made yourselves a tank =p.

Someone else could write a post twice as long about all the stuff that kills IWAY no problem...yet IWAY teams were FoTm for a long time, and still are used to faction farm.

Its all in what the opponents bring skill wise because of what they expect.

Most of the "protections" against dmg used right now - Touch laughs at. Want to stop attack skills, spells, etc? Ok..what ever..I dont care. Want to evade attacks? Ok..whatever.. I dont care. Want to spam conditions on me? Ok...whatever..I dont care. Want to boost your AL into your "uber" ranks? Ok..whatever..I dont care.

The Bumbling Shogun · Dec 09, 2005, 02:15 AM // 02:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vexed Arcanist

16 Expertise
12 Blood
rest who cares

Touch of Agony
Vamp Touch
Throw Dirt
Life Transfer
Plague Touch
Whirling Defense
Dodge
Res Sig

That just about sums up an R/N for 4v4. Some use a pet, some use offering of blood, some use Life Siphon, some use QZ. For me they are all gimped compared.

Im using this build in CA and it's doing pretty well, plague touch in particular is a whole lot of fun. Take In to consideration my comments are based on less then one day's play but I got wrecked by a hex heavy Mes/N and some monk builds are kind of difficult. It's also alot of fun to throw dirt in a melee's eyes and watch em swing. Ty Vexed for this build I really enjoy it.
P.S. Im using Life Transfer (which does beat the pants off of Life Siphon) but it seems like everyone and there dog is running Smite Hex or an equivilant.

Manfred · Dec 09, 2005, 03:28 AM // 03:28

Then try running my version with offering of blood for increased spammification

.

LaserLight · Dec 09, 2005, 03:52 AM // 03:52

Huh. No, I don't see it at all, Akathrielah. Yes, there are problems with the build, but there are problems with axe and hammer warriors as well, which aren't there for one of these touchy-feely types. For one, unless you pack Necromancer secondary on yer Axeman or Hammerman simply for the condition transfer, a single Throw Dirt shuts you down for plenty enough time to cause you trouble.

Not to mention that, as many other people have stated, this guy isn't one you can counter very easily, at all. it deals direct armor-ignoring damage in rapid succession, and that alone makes it valuable. That and the concentration on Expertise and its tricks means you have a very versatile fighter that can play both active offense and active defense. Most Warriors I've seen use Healing Signet and their AL to resist attacks and depend on a friendly Monk to do the rest. This guy can heal AND defend himself.

To me, this dude is an excellent choice for launching at the enemy in the opening stage of a fight. Use him as a pointman to do something unexpected to an enemy. It seems like a startling foe to me, something that could easily throw someone off their beaten track. Especially with a condition transfer skill; you'd eat most other Rangers and a good deal of Necromancers with that skill alone. it's especially useful when said Rangers/Necros are bombarding you with Conditions to try and stop you from savaging their Warrior tank. You just bounce it all back onto the Warrior and let him try and deal with it.

I'm gonna have to convert my bow R/N to one of these suckers and give it a real test whirl. SOunds like a gas to play, and even if it isn't a top-tier, ultra-competitive build, well...not everything can be an EoE Bomber, eh?

Bubba Lips · Dec 09, 2005, 04:43 AM // 04:43

is it just me or does the touch ranger take no brains to play

it also looks incredibly boring

All in expertise
rest in blood

Vamp gaze
Vamp touch
Vamp gaze

ZzZZZzzZzzZz

LaserLight · Dec 09, 2005, 04:58 AM // 04:58

Uhh...'touch' Ranger, Lips. As in, no Gaze. the other primary damaging skill, Touch of Agony, actually counteracts Vampiric Touch to some extent. And ye know, it's kinda the same with any Warrior, huh? Run in, use your smackdown of choice, sit back and watch as your character swings his particluar ouch-stick at the other guy. Hit Healing Signet every now and then. Just as big a no-brainer, hm?

Point is, most any build has some potential to it. What the Touch Ranger is is a sort of ghost character; one you can't touch and one who can hurt you through even the most potent defenses. To me, it sounds like the deal of the century :P

Vexed Arcanist · Dec 09, 2005, 05:07 AM // 05:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bubba Lips

is it just me or does the touch ranger take no brains to play

it also looks incredibly boring

All in expertise
rest in blood

Vamp gaze
Vamp touch
Vamp gaze

ZzZZZzzZzzZz

Oh you got me....unlike the Ele Spiker with Spike Spike Spike or the Monk Healer with Heal Heal Heal or the Interrupt Ranger with Interrupt Interrupt Interrupt or the Resolve Trapper with Trap Trap Trap or the Spike Ranger with Preparation Shoot Shoot Shoot...........forgot how much more exciting those were...Or IWAY....Or Order Necro........................

Please.

Bubba Lips · Dec 09, 2005, 05:11 AM // 05:11

just my opinion but keep the sarcasm coming!

LaserLight · Dec 09, 2005, 07:02 AM // 07:02

Arcanis and I merely wish to point out to you, Lips, that your opinion is, at the least, misplaced. This is a thread to discuss the merits and flaws of playing a Touch-skill based Ranger/Necromancer, and it's obviously not a bash thread.

All characters in this game, with a very few exceptions, tend to use the same set of key skills, or even a single key skill, repeatedly. It's the nature of the game. Just like the card games this thing resembles, skills usually work best in multiples. Builds heavily focused on their primary objective are both stronger and actually more flexible than a scattered character with no skill cohesion, since a truly excellent skill set will manage to retain its heavy primary attack or other main function while sacrificing none of its versatility should that function go awry. Given that...people spam their favorite skills. What skills do YOU spam, Lips?

Anyways. My apologies for the long-winded rant, but sometimes people just get on my nerves, and I can never shut up when they do.

Bubba Lips · Dec 09, 2005, 08:08 AM // 08:08

r o f l

i'll hold my tongue

R/N is an awesome build esp if you trappin

Former Ruling · Dec 09, 2005, 01:53 PM // 13:53

Tested it last night - Made a good bit of Faction in the CA.

Heres how it acts vs every type -

Ranger - Bow rangers fall the second quickest of anyone. Trap rangers are ok if you can plague touch off the conditions before they run off.

Elementalist - Elementalist of all types fall the easiest of all. Just had one elementalist faced that used earth magics that sort of caught the team off gaurd.

Necromancers - Also surprisingly easy, atleast the builds I faced. None of their hexes had any lasting effect, and the blood ones didn't do that well at maintaining their HP.

Warrior and Monks - grouped together, because most warriors and monks work together or share strategy. A GOOD warrior or monk combo can take awhile to take down, but it happens. Just wastes their time.

Mesmers - Mesmers were this builds worst enemy. The right mesmers that is. Energy Denail ones weren't that hard to stay up against - Just stop using Vamp Touch for a few seconds, and only use of Agony awhile (that costs 2 energy under expertise) or just run off and regain some energy. Other mesmers that did backfire type stuff sucked even worse...Didn't even effect me. The mesmers that proved the HARDEST, and the hardest of all, were actually the Hex ones. This build doesn't really have much protection from Conjure Phantasm spamming, and Blackouts.

But it did awesome considering some of the groups I got put in...A sample would be the warrior/monk that ran Restore Life..or the elementalist/necro that was trying a ele version of the touch build.

Vexed Arcanist · Dec 09, 2005, 02:31 PM // 14:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Former Ruling

Tested it last night - Made a good bit of Faction in the CA.

Heres how it acts vs every type -

Ranger - Bow rangers fall the second quickest of anyone. Trap rangers are ok if you can plague touch off the conditions before they run off.

Elementalist - Elementalist of all types fall the easiest of all. Just had one elementalist faced that used earth magics that sort of caught the team off gaurd.

Necromancers - Also surprisingly easy, atleast the builds I faced. None of their hexes had any lasting effect, and the blood ones didn't do that well at maintaining their HP.

Warrior and Monks - grouped together, because most warriors and monks work together or share strategy. A GOOD warrior or monk combo can take awhile to take down, but it happens. Just wastes their time.

Mesmers - Mesmers were this builds worst enemy. The right mesmers that is. Energy Denail ones weren't that hard to stay up against - Just stop using Vamp Touch for a few seconds, and only use of Agony awhile (that costs 2 energy under expertise) or just run off and regain some energy. Other mesmers that did backfire type stuff sucked even worse...Didn't even effect me. The mesmers that proved the HARDEST, and the hardest of all, were actually the Hex ones. This build doesn't really have much protection from Conjure Phantasm spamming, and Blackouts.

But it did awesome considering some of the groups I got put in...A sample would be the warrior/monk that ran Restore Life..or the elementalist/necro that was trying a ele version of the touch build.

Yes, it has been stated a few times the Touch Ranger works best in Random Arena. I have seen a team arena setup using 3 touch rangers and they did very well, they used different schemes. One had a pet, one used a bow for a few choice skills.

I have heard a few reports of the build used in PvE, namely Sorrow's Furnace. I wouldn't use it in 8v8 PvP as it doesn't bring much to constructed teams of large size.

For me the most terrifying of enemies (read: annoyingly potent vs Touch Rangers) is an Aura Bomber and Resolve Trapper mainly when they have a monk and I do not.

Ignore the troll posts, they have nothing constructive to add. They merely feed off attention.

jibikao · Dec 09, 2005, 04:24 PM // 16:24

A real Touchy Ranger does not use pet and I think that's when you lose the versatility of being a Ranger. A lot of Touchy Ranger use staff for more energy and Offering of Blood for energy gain or Life Transfer for even more blood sucking. The downfall is:

1.) You don't have any interruption. I think every Ranger should have at least one interruption. The power to interrupt rez sig, troll urgent, and other skills are just too important. I would rather use a bow with +5 energy for one Distracting shot than holding a staff if I play a true Touchy Ranger.

2.) Touch of Agony and Offering of Blood hurts you. In CA, you don't always have monks so losing health is just not a bright idea for me. I know Touch of Agony + Vamp Touch do a lot of unresistable damage but Vamp Touch only recharges at 2s, so it's not like you can't spam vamp touch very quickly.

3.) If you don't use Offering of Blood, you are going to run out of energy in a long battle. Some said their worst nightmare is against energy denial Mesmer and that's because you can't keep sacrificing health for more energy. And without energy, touchy ranger is shut down.

4.) You need melee range to spam touches, so cripple and running target becomes a big problem too. I know some touchy ranger uses Escape but that's an elite. Escape is great though but you just need to watch your energy pool.
---------------------------

I use pet for Ferocious Strike, Disrupting Lunge and Call of Haste. This gives me versatily I need. FS can leech tons of energy back for you and Disrupting Lunge is just so spammable (very cheap energy cost!!) and very effective with Call of Haste (you need practice to interrupt well with pet).

I also use Whirling Defense against bow rangers (those with Punishing, Savage, Distracting build).

My pet does decent dmg on caster and ranger so even when I get crippled or the target keeps running away, I have my pet chasing after it.

Energy denial Mesmer is useless against me. FS will make them give up and they do. lol

Wither + Malasis is more of a problem but it's not huge since I still have my pet to do decent damage on caster.

Distortion + IW Mesmer is my nightmare. But it can be a nightmare for any class if you can't shut it down with enchantment stripment or cripple.

Warrior with Wild Blow, Knockdown, Irrsistable Blow can be annoying.

Ele is the easier for Ranger even as a bow ranger.

Necro can be so easy if he runs Aura of Lich build. Your touch dmg does not get reduced.

And I am experienced enough to disabled their skills. It all comes with practice and anticipation and luck.

Oh, one more. Trapper with Mantra of Resolve is a nightmare too. lol God, I hate them.

Vexed Arcanist · Dec 09, 2005, 04:31 PM // 16:31

I ran a slightly augmented version with a bow. The 2 bow skills I used were Crippling Shot and Distracting Shot. The court is out on whether it was more or less effective. Since the key environment is Random Arena play it is rather hard to gauge the nuances of almost similar builds.

I also run a bow build that uses Plague and Vamp Touch, but it isn't a Touch Ranger. It too is very effective in Comp Arena. Once you take another path you have left the Touch Ranger behind. If your skills are mainly bow or pet then I say you are no longer in the same scope as a Touch Ranger and you really can't compare. Sharing a few skills doesn't equate to the same build. For example:

Crippling Shot
Hunters Shot
Savage Shot
Distracting Shot
Plague Touch
Whirling Defense
Vampiric Touch
Res Sig

Debilitating Shot
Savage Shot
Distracting Shot
Oath Shot
Plague Touch
Whirling Defense
Vampiric Touch
Res Sig

Neither of these should be compared to each other or to a standard Touch Ranger, though they share many of the same skills. They all have different functions while sharing others.

Tek Bashem · Dec 09, 2005, 04:57 PM // 16:57

@jibikao
I'm using almost the same skills as in your build (pets just rock if your skill withe them is high) but in my opinion its a must for any necromancer secondary to bring rend entchanments. its they key to iw, eles and monks.
as trappers are easy to avoid and if u know how to kill traps with pet they are kinda useless, so I'm wondering where is the problems with them ?